Nirvana (Joy):
-------------------

Project started in '91. Mostly 2 person project, just lost 1 person.
Joy left but Paul and Phillipe know portions of the code
Joy is the project leader and defining plan for potential use for run II

Histoscope (scads of motif), Nfit package over minuit.
What about minuit support? Will it still be needed and what is
commitment from CERN

Provides own data format and histogramming  OR HBOOK

132K lines of C code (excluding nedit)
2k lines of FORTRAN

Source is passed through Purify

Has binary distribution SGI, DEC, Linux
static linking
vendor compilers used Linux: g77, f2c
64 bit OK (SGI, DEC)

Modular in some aspects, e.g. widgets are a separate package

Limitations: Not comprehensive on HEP needs. Limits on data size
(must fit into Virtual memory).

Philippe working on getting CW ntuples in now as part of ZOOM.

Not available on NT or '95


LHC++ (Dave and Dennis)
-------------------------------------

Official support and financing by CERN.

Backbone is OpenGL, OpenInventor, Explorer - extensible.
Commercial modules available + those being written at CERN

Associated institutes included in site licensing, centrally managed by CERN.
Have explorer and Mastersuite site license
Cost is significant. 
Developer and runtime only needed for a few developers (but Objectivity
needed for any user)

Since 1995

OpenGL - can non-commercial be used?

Has minuit and ntuple support now

New release expected this June. How often are releases? Had one in Feb,
June.

New releases will probably require a support person to track releases (of
the
components)

First production version expected ~ 1 yr from now

How many people are working on it? Need to find out.

Support planned for Sun, HP, NT, SGI, IBM, DEC (in priority order)

NT likely this summer

Linux - verbal promise of support only
Blocking point - Objectivity Port to Linux said to be forthcoming this
summer.

TGS Responsive to HEP community.

No interpreter - dynamically link in your code.

STL from ObjectSpace, not compiler vendor's. Also use "Internet Toolkit"
from Objectspace (support code).

Have a list of supported compilers. KAI is not one of them.

Question - what is the ODMG standard (ODMG at V2 now).

How dependent is LHC++ on Objectivity? There is a HEPODBMS layer supposed
to cover dependency.

NAG C math lib. Some HEP needed functionality missing. Cries out for a
wrapper
library too. HEPMATH (new) wrapper for NAG + supplementary HEP
functionality.

IRIX Explorer has FORTRAN or C i/o function. Hooks to map to other schemes.
C++ too? Looks like it.

RD45 - Objectivity persistence, RD44 - Geant.